tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post2502120734023532371..comments2023-09-29T01:48:26.874-07:00Comments on Scott in Tempe: Religious Faith Quandariestempe turleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00906350838729139212noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-59566210067357539512008-05-26T13:34:00.000-07:002008-05-26T13:34:00.000-07:00Hmmmm.....who is this Kathleen person, I've been ...Hmmmm.....who is this Kathleen person, I've been wondering for a long time. I don't feel very different from these Shortcreek folks because I spent summers not far from there and downwind from the Nevada Test Site.<BR/><BR/>My father was a friend of Zion's<BR/>Books Sam Weiler after the war so<BR/>I grew up with first editions of Mormonism's Documentary and Comprehensive Histories of the Church. My Dad also had a first edition of the D and C which was too fragile to handle much, so he waited for something worth trading it in for. That was the Journal of Discourses.<BR/><BR/>I had most of it read by the time<BR/>I was 17 or so. And had discussed the difficult passages with my parents. [Adam-God theory, blood atonement] I was fascinated by Joseph Smith's reading of the Zohar, on Creation, on the next world.<BR/><BR/>One day me'n my girlfriends were palling around town and we went<BR/>over to Virginia's house because<BR/>she had a record of English Folksongs and a record player.<BR/><BR/>It was a version of She Moved through the Faire that had a few more verses on it. The maiden is thirteen and the stranger begs her<BR/>three more years longer to tarry.<BR/><BR/>Only Virginia and I survived until<BR/>we were 17. I had to fight my mother to let me go to College. But we were straight LDS, Handcart Pioneers on both sides. My Great<BR/>Grandmother was the last to be<BR/>born in Polygamy. She married, leaving the Y to get married, and went up into the High Country near Circleville with another newly married couple to herd sheep.<BR/>My Grandmother went to BAC at 14<BR/>and had a romantic life with my grandfather.<BR/><BR/>I'm open to site invitations and my<BR/>Blogger Blog is open.Kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10797642017313357294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-66939953264164870332008-05-25T21:59:00.000-07:002008-05-25T21:59:00.000-07:00Davey,Thanks for your comments. I searched your b...Davey,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments. I searched your blog but I haven't found this one yet, I'm guessing you haven't posted it. I'll be anxiously awaiting...tempe turleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906350838729139212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-18582399828839094312008-05-24T18:47:00.000-07:002008-05-24T18:47:00.000-07:00Hi Scott, I just found your blog; I’m liking what ...Hi Scott, I just found your blog; I’m liking what I read so far. I'm glad you take the time to think about this stuff, it's great.<BR/><BR/>I definitely agree with your general point that erring on the side of compassion and tolerance is probably the best way to go. On your other point I'm reading "Forbidden Knowledge: from Prometheus to pornography" by Roger Shattuck, in it the author wonders whether myths like Prometheus, Adam and Eve and others have something to teach us about the danger of unbounded curiosity. It addresses your point fairly comprehensively, I haven't finished it yet so I won't recommend it but now you know it's out there.<BR/><BR/>The issue of gay Mormons got me thinking so much that my comment turned into it's own post so you'll have to check my blog to read it but thanks for inspiring some thoughts.Daveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00318410719611737009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-41129181241153926212008-05-23T13:54:00.000-07:002008-05-23T13:54:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Daveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00318410719611737009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-35312401149260473742008-05-17T10:54:00.000-07:002008-05-17T10:54:00.000-07:00Who is this Kathleen person? I can't wrap my fing...Who is this Kathleen person? I can't wrap my finger around what she is trying to say. Anyway Scott, I hope you take all these thoughts to heart when it comes to checking the little boxes in the election booth. (well, I guess that would be filling in the little line on the ballot)Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17889554974006623288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-6143781444366330262008-05-16T11:58:00.000-07:002008-05-16T11:58:00.000-07:00Missonaries are 19 year old kidswho probably didn'...Missonaries are 19 year old kids<BR/>who probably didn't listen to their<BR/>Church History Teacher when they were nine or escaped the class entirely.<BR/><BR/>Alternatly the teachers try to involve the boys by playing church history<BR/>baseball. Sometimes they are only pretending to not listen. I caught<BR/>my boys at this a few times.<BR/><BR/>My husband was willing to teach the boys seperatly, but the Sunday School Superintendent said if I<BR/>couldn't manage my class he'd find someone better. [Unlikely].<BR/><BR/>So, the best you can do is send an outraged letter to the Church Historian's office. They care about what converts think--especially when there are so many.<BR/><BR/>Now if the probably is that you want to understand better, that is much easier to solve. Be ready for<BR/>things you never thought might be so. Mormon History is extremely<BR/>complex. If you want objectivity,<BR/>I'd read Thomas Kane, a non-Mormon journalist who was<BR/>friendly to the Saints, but non-Mormon and objective.<BR/><BR/>There are non-Mormon journalists<BR/>who developed some helpful paradigms for looking at religious<BR/>history--the notion of the sacred<BR/>story. The Sacred Story of Mormon<BR/>origins may be tremendously important.<BR/><BR/>You can get into the nitty gritty of<BR/>it as a historian, and learn things which you may be able to integrate back into the sacred story, but<BR/>it takes time. You need to know a great deal about the history of Europe and America to place Mormon History.<BR/><BR/>The net is the worst place to learn.<BR/>There are Mormon Historians with<BR/>sites, but no time.<BR/><BR/>Try Seagull Tapes and books, or Sam Weiler's Books--he has a few million books warehoused.<BR/><BR/>KMWKathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10797642017313357294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-51977198517783650712008-05-16T11:44:00.000-07:002008-05-16T11:44:00.000-07:00Thanks April for your kind comments. I guess I hav...Thanks April for your kind comments. I guess I haven't heard a lot of diverse commentary from members of the church about either issue but it would be interesting to hear it.<BR/><BR/>Kathleen, I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at with your comments.<BR/><BR/>I do want to make it clear that the church I belong to, the LDS church is much different than the FLDS church, and while we have had polygamy in our history, we have long ago stopped. From what I heard about what has gone on inside the FLDS church, it really saddens me, young girls getting forced into marriage with older men, boys banished because of the competition between women (hard to maintain the multiple wives dynamic if you have equal numbers of men and women), relationship between mothers and their children weakened. The whole thing is sickening and heartbreaking quite frankly.<BR/><BR/>I can't speak to how the government has stepped in to disrupt it. But I'm glad Warren Jepps is behind bars, and I'm glad we're finally doing something about all the abuse that has been going on in that community all these years.<BR/><BR/>I really can't say for sure why our church adopted polygamy when it did, but I'm glad we're not doing it now, and I'm glad it's an issue I really don't have to deal with personally.<BR/><BR/>While I believe in tolerance as a general rule. I have no tolerance for behavior that causes explicit damage to others, and it seems obvious that that is what has been going on within the FLDS church.tempe turleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906350838729139212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-22880518501299936952008-05-15T18:26:00.000-07:002008-05-15T18:26:00.000-07:00In the East they make a distinction between discip...In the East they make a distinction between disciples and Devotees. For Devotees the small stuff isn't so important--it is the affect, the burning in the bosom that matters.<BR/><BR/>I was reared with a German Catholic Grandfather in a small in law room with bath. He was reared by The Sisters of the Seven Pains--i.e. Dolores, after they lied and said his mother was dead.<BR/><BR/>His Oldest sister did not believe the nuns and took her brothers and sisters to the Cemetary where they cried until dusk--there was no upturned earth.<BR/><BR/>A nun came and called them for dinner. He was a Boomer,<BR/>and had many adventures about which I loved to hear,<BR/>sitting on his lap and watching Roy Roger and Dale Evens. Grandpa was a real rootin' tootin' coyboy and little girls who didn't get<BR/>baptized went to hell. I was pretty sure that wasn't true,<BR/>and I knew there were other kids in the ward who were baptized Catholic and afterwards Mormon.<BR/><BR/>It didn't happen in Cedar City,<BR/>which I thought was close to<BR/>heaven. And if it didn't happen in Cedar, it wasn't<BR/>happening in our family.<BR/><BR/>So if you want to know <BR/>what I think about Mountain Meadows, or the FDLS Children, I've been crying<BR/>about the raid pretty much since it happened.<BR/><BR/>Something is going wrong<BR/>with Amerikwa, in fact, Bush<BR/>gave himself unprecedented<BR/>and extraordinary powers<BR/>just this morning.<BR/><BR/>He must defend the honor of<BR/>Texas and Texas and if there<BR/>are FLDS disabled children dying in the hospital because<BR/>CPS doesn't believe that any<BR/>state has services superior to<BR/>those of the Texan Nation State.<BR/><BR/>HHM played the trick of getting in and out under the<BR/>very noses of the Morally<BR/>Superior Texans and are probably hunting down the<BR/>Dads and older boys.<BR/><BR/>Of course they know their patients, deliver entrained twins with different mothers<BR/>as a matter of course and monitor the childrens'<BR/>blood clotting time and other<BR/>important measures about<BR/>how the babies and mothers are doing.<BR/><BR/>The trouble is that we lie when we have to. We lie with a smile on our faces unperturbed, when we have to. We hate it, but all the kids from Yearning For Zion<BR/>knew it, it was in their blood.<BR/><BR/>My Grandma's best friend was the Shart Crick midwife<BR/>and died of a post war epidemic just after the war,<BR/>just like my Aunt Kathleen did at the same time.<BR/><BR/>Weeping and stoicism got them through--so I hate it<BR/>when people discover that<BR/>we lie. I'm sure they lie in China--that was what gave him his big grin.<BR/><BR/>And if there are converts who<BR/>are shocked, let 'em be shocked. My best friend just<BR/>got baptized--she loves her<BR/>missionaries and her sisters<BR/>and she doesn't give a darn if<BR/>there is a long list of things I think she ought to know before she gets baptized last month.<BR/><BR/>She is a person of importance who doesn't like it and hears about herself on the TV, then hears the news about herself from the kids.<BR/><BR/>I told her to work it out on her own, really whatever she does I'll love her the same,<BR/>and it's true. I told her her missionaries were just kids<BR/>and to ask me if she needs a<BR/>question answered. I think<BR/>she'd rather watch them make fools of them selves, the fish is on the hook--with they lose such a precious soul when they were so close<BR/>to netting her.<BR/><BR/>I wish I could watch. I made her promise not to suggest that it was my fault to anyone.<BR/><BR/>Kathleen Matheson SutherlandKathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10797642017313357294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5939543443166847471.post-17161769710522350632008-05-14T22:01:00.000-07:002008-05-14T22:01:00.000-07:00Very well written Scott. I think I'd have to agree...Very well written Scott. I think I'd have to agree with you that some things I just don't want to know about and other opinions I keep to myself. I find it interesting though that even within the church there are so many views on issues such as abortion and homosexuality. We were all raised to believe the same things, although our parents and oursleves are individulas with different interpretations. All I know is, I just can't wait to talk to Heavenly Father and have my questions answered. Frankly, I'd like to know if I'm on the right track, if there is one.Aprilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10523318718290287586noreply@blogger.com